What is Project Elimu? 

Project Elimu is an after school programme for children in Kibera. Dance is one of our core activities, built around ballet, modern and African dance. We’ve been running this space since 2018, aiming to give children in Kibera a place to hang out, a safe space for young kids to come in and explore the beauty of dance.

We focus on creating dance as an access for education: we’ve seen children who are dancing with us getting more eager and interested in school. It is an oasis of a safe space for children, using dance as a tool of expression. 

I imagine the world outside the school is less safe?

Kibera is not an easy place to grow up as a child. Children face a lot of domestic violence and neglect – some even face hardship even when it comes to accessing food. It’s a quite intense but also a very beautiful place, with a lot of happiness, lots of colour, lots of people trying to make a difference. 

Like any other slum, Kibera is quite intense, but also sometimes dangerous to young girls growing up there. Our activities are designed to make children feel safe and teach them how to take care of themselves. We do a lot around sexual reproductive health and menstrual health management. Within the school, we have a sanitary towel bank, because when I started teaching one of the biggest challenges was that we would always have girls missing dance classes just because they didn’t have access to menstrual products.

How did your own dance journey begin?

I always say I started dancing as a default. My single mother was not able to support my high school education – my father had just passed away and everything broke down. I was pushed out to work at 15. I always wanted to be in the arts field. When I saw a poster for dance auditions for a Kenyan performing arts group, I thought it would be a perfect opportunity. 

Dancing gave me so much. I was not the best dancer in my dance school – when they were selecting 10 people, I would always be the 10th – but this taught me persistence. That’s why I love sharing my story with my students so that they all know that it’s not just about being the perfect dancer. It’s about the journey.

Why is RAD ballet also part of the mix at the school? 

To me it was important because it gives you an introduction to ballet in a very smooth, understandable way. It trains you on working on your core from a very early age. By the time they grow older and venture into other dance classes, like modern dance, jazz and African dance, you can see the presence of these children. They always have their backs straight. 

It has also been helpful academically. I love ballet because it teaches you that when you’re present, you’re also present in your normal classroom. I always tell them with pride: when you dance, you become elegant. And being elegant, you don’t need to know every answer within your class, but you can get help whenever you ask for it.

It must be emotional to see people come in as young kids and leave on the verge of their adult life?

It’s fulfilling when I see children get scholarships that initially they would have not been able to get. Some have travelled abroad, or been able to join high school: we have a very high rate of school dropout due to financial issues here. I see them become students at the university of Nairobi, studying medicine. They did this because we were able to find scholarship opportunities for them through dance. They start off just walking in to play and it ends up amazing.

Why does dance matter to you? 

Dance matters to me so much because it’s our core. In Kenya, we used to use dance to celebrate things or for mourning. We used to use dance to mark our calendars – it has been part of our lives. However, dance was often given a negative approach, and thought of as time-wasting tool, just a tool for entertainment. Yet it is something that makes us realise who we really are, our identity and our path. It is okay to dream and to want to be who you want to be. Dance has given that to me and so to me dance matters so much. 

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. From November, episodes are released each month: first up is star choreographer Sir Matthew Bourne. Please do listen and subscribe.

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Hear the full interview with Mike Wamaya

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Project Elimu’s official music video

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Jasmin Vardimon

Dance Gazette

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You’re a writer, activist, role model – you’re even a Barbie! But do you still think of yourself foremost as a dancer?

Yes, I would say that dancer is at the top. I wouldn’t be the person that I am or have the opportunities that dance has afforded me if I weren’t a dancer. It plays into everything that I do, with this mission and goal which is to bring dance and ballet to more people and to have a conversation about the lack of diversity in ballet.

Joy can sometimes be corrected out of ballet – how do you hold onto it?

No one’s ever pointed that out before but it’s true. I was in an atmosphere where my teacher saw my talent and nurtured it and made sure that I was protected. There was of course negativity and racism happening around me, but I think because I had such a positive experience it became something more to me. 

The only experience in my almost 25-year professional career where I’ve experienced nerves to the point of not being able to physically do what I needed to do was the first time I performed Odette-Odile in Swan Lake. So many generations of Black women have been told: you will never be the Swan Queen, you will never be able to fit into Swan Lake. So all of that was in the back of my mind when all of a sudden at 32 years old – which is ancient in ballet! – I was given the opportunity to perform the role. I was trying to undo the generational trauma of Black dancers before me who were told they couldn’t be a part of this. I really had to dig deep. I started seeing a sports psychologist to deal with a performance anxiety that I’d never experienced my whole career and it was all around that expectation.

Misty Copeland meeting RAD members in 2018. Photo: David Tett

Do you enjoy passing on your experience to new generations of dancers?

It’s not something I ever imagined I would do, but I feel like it’s our duty – not just in ballet or as women but as human beings – to pass on our experiences to the next generation so they can be more than us. It’s never even been a thought in my mind that I wouldn’t share what I’ve gone through. The work that I’m trying to do within the ballet community is to make it a more inviting, inclusive space. I’ll be doing that work for as long as I’m here.

Nine years ago you became the first female African-American Principal at American Ballet Theatre. Were you prepared for the reaction that news caused?

[The public interest] was so bizarre to me. You could feel it palpitating in the audiences. That season I was promoted, I had performed Swan Lake for the first time earlier in the year in Australia but I hadn’t performed it in America, at our home in the Metropolitan Opera House. The New York Times was coming to review it, which doesn’t typically happen for a first timer typically. There was all this expectation and it was overwhelming. But I was promoted early in the afternoon when I was due to go right into rehearsals and I was performing that night. My phone was exploding but I’m like, I’m rehearsing. Leave me alone, I’ve got work to do!

Does ballet help shut out the noise that can surround you?

That is so dead on. It’s a really helpful tool. This is why I wanted to start the Be Bold program through my foundation. Because I know there are so many children who have similar experiences to mine as a young person, or who are in atmospheres where there’s they’re not being nurtured in any way. There’s so much going on in their outside lives or in school. So to have this one place where you can let go and be free, be creative and find joy – with a support system and someone who cares – that to me is the real core of why I wanted to start this program. It’s what ballet has brought to me. I’ve had a lot of obstacles along the way and it’s been really challenging, but it’s what I think has saved me in so many ways. 

Copeland with young dancers in New York. Photo: courtesy of Madison Square Boys & Girls Club

You’ve done so much – would your younger self have expected any of this?

Oh my gosh. No way. Absolutely not. I saw dance as a way out, a way to grow and to have more happiness in my life. But I didn’t think that it would ever reach these heights. I give so much credit to my first ballet teacher Cynthia Bradley. Months after I had started dancing with her, she said to me one day: ‘Misty, you’re going to dine with kings and queens and dance all over the world on the most important stages.’ I remember looking at her like, she is off her rocker. But she had a vision and she saw potential. I’ve always been so grateful for the opportunity to be exposed to dance and I’ve done as much as I can with the opportunity.

Why does dance matter to you?

Dance matters to me because it has been essential in shaping who I am as a person and who I will continue to be.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. Misty Copeland launces the new season of on Why Dance Matters, the RAD’s podcast, on 13 June. Other guests this season include Kenyan ballet teacher Michael Wamaya and breakdancing opera star Josef Jakub Orlinksi. Please do listen and subscribe.

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Jasmin Vardimon

Dance Gazette

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What was it like to hear Darcey Bussell announce your name as the gold medallist?

Every time I do a competition, I always think it’s a performance. I don’t necessarily think about the competition aspect, because then it becomes more pressurised and I always end up doing worse. So I wasn’t expecting anything, to be completely honest – because it’s the Fonteyn! It was scary, having to stand in front of so many people and bow and accept something so lovely. I didn’t necessarily know how to put it into words, because it’s just a very odd feeling. It’s very surreal and lovely.

Before the final, your father said you would probably be quiet and trying to focus. Is that right?

My dad knows me a bit too well! That was spot on. Before going on stage, you have to just block everyone out. I watched everyone, which was lovely, like a bunch of different variations – so when it came to my bit, I was like: this is my time to tell part of the story, this is my time to entertain people. I don’t take myself seriously – but I take this job seriously, this craft and art. Out of respect for everybody there, all the people that have bought tickets, my teachers and family getting me here and supporting me, I feel like it’s my job to get myself in that zone. So it’s not just me doing this on my own.

Jakob Wheway Hughes’ classical solo at The Fonteyn. Photo: Martin Bell

How easy is it to make classical technique your own? 

I’ve always trained in several styles: jazz, ballet, contemporary, neoclassical, tap, loads of different things. I’ll take different aspects of different things and fuse them into my ballet. Learning everything is overwhelming, but you can’t lose yourself in the technique. I’ve got teachers and people around me that will tell me, Listen, you’ve got a soul in there. You can’t just turn into a robot lifting their legs up.

At The Fonteyn there were young dancers from all over the world, and coaches seeing you for the first time – how was that experience?

I decided to treat the first half of the week as a summer school and just enjoy it and get as much out of it as I could. The faculty were lovely, and I made such good friends. We were all trying to keep afloat, work together and enjoy it properly. It was such a nice experience. 

Being with these new coaches was a breath of fresh air because they were an objective eye. They didn’t know who you were, or any of the technical features you possess. All they were looking for was the energy you gave off and how comfortable you were to watch. We did one rehearsal with Endalyn T Outlaw who was so lovely and warm. She said to me, calm it down. Whatever happens in performance is what happens, you can’t change it. Think of it as just a different version of the dance. It calmed me down, and I was able to do it the best I’d ever done, because it was a completely different correction to any I’d had before.

Judges and medallists at The Fonteyn. Photo: Martin Bell

How did dance start for you?

We’ve always been a very creative and athletic family, so we’d try everything. As a two year old, I used to spin around and kick my legs up in the air. I only properly started wanting to do ballet at the age of 10. It’s a comfortable place for me, where I can keep pushing myself to be the best version of myself I can be. 

Why does dance matter to you? 

It matters because art is important. Art matters. Also, it keeps us all connected, as a whole human race. Anybody can dance, even if it’s just dancing in your kitchen when you’re washing up the dishes. It’s a really great way of expressing oneself. If I’m sad, then I can dance. If I’m insanely happy, I can dance. Even if I’m feeling anger, which is very rare, I can dance. It’s a unique thing, and you can find yourself through it.

Jakob Wheway Hughes with judges Aaron S Watkin, Dame Darcey Bussell and Amanda Britton. Photo: Martin Bell

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. The latest season also includes Aaron S Watkin, Fonteyn judge and artistic director of English National Ballet, choreographers Pam Tanowitz and Drew McOnie, and the actor Nina Wadia. Please do listen and subscribe.

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A clip of Jakob performing at The Fonteyn

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Germaine Acogny

Dance Gazette

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You are an author and creator of a screen sensation. But more importantly: your mother is a dance teacher?
Yes, my mum, Trudi Oseman, is a director of a community dance school called the Bluebell School of Dance. It’s been her life’s passion. And she teaches ballet and so obviously, I did ballet from a really young age – I think I must have been two when I started baby ballet. I did it all the way until I was 14. I enjoyed it so much.

How was being taught by your parent?
She’s a very warm and loving person and such a good teacher, so it never felt awkward or weird at all. It was just my life. 

Does the experience of performing help when you are in the spotlight today? 
When you asked me to be on Why Dance Matters, one of the first things I thought about was how much confidence just having done dance has given me throughout my life. When I was at school, I never got that nervous about exams, and I always attribute that to the fact that I had done dance and been put in quite nerve-inducing situations, being on a stage performing in front of loads of people. It has given me so much confidence and made a lot of other things a lot less scary in comparison.

Writing and art – are these solitary activities where you have to find your own way?
I loved drawing, I loved writing stories. But when you’re growing up, finding your way into these artistic passions, they really are a solitary thing. I didn’t tell anyone that I was writing stories for a really long time. Didn’t tell any my friends or my parents, because it just felt like my thing. I didn’t want anyone else’s opinions, I guess.

How do you feel about the push back on teaching LGBTQ+ ideas, especially in the US?
It wasn’t my intention to write anything to make a point or to be used in any arguments. It’s been really interesting to see the swarm of popularity that Heartstopper has gained, despite the rising anger and bigotry surrounding queer books. It’s been really sad to see Heartstopper being challenged and banned in various schools, particularly in America. It’s hard to comprehend why such an innocent love story could possibly be deemed inappropriate. But it is good to know that I’ve put something positive into the world. 

What is the physical act of creation like?
Creating a webcomic is a very physical task. I have to draw every single day – my aim is to draw one page every day and that’s about three or four hours of drawing. I have to be sitting at my desk in a very rigid, upright chair. If I draw more than that or if I’m sitting slightly wrong, I will injure myself. There are so many webcomic artists who develop quite serious injuries, especially backs and shoulders. It’s so easy to injure yourself from drawing too much.

‘Dance has given me an inner confidence’… Alice Oseman

Why does dance matter to you? 
It’s given me a very natural inner confidence when it comes to so many other aspects of my life. I do a lot of public appearances as an author, I do some public speaking. Having done dance, being on stage in front of lots of people, in high pressure situations like exams, has made me feel comfortable expressing myself in front of lots of people. 

The second part of my answer is: creativity. Before you invited me on the podcast, I hadn’t thought about how being creative and dance has been such a big part of my life. Exploring and expressing my emotions, through music, and through movement has been fun, something that I have loved to do. And while dance isn’t my life’s passion, it has been a really lovely and joyful thing to have had in my life.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette. The latest season of Why Dance Matters also includes choreographer Wayne McGregor, David Hallberg, artistic director of the Australian Ballet, ballerina and physicist Merrill Moore, RAD teacher Mitchell Rayner and Endalyn T Outlaw, who is a coach at The Fonteyn. Plus: Jennifer Wright, choreographer of Barbie! Do listen and subscribe.

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Aditi Mangaldas

Dance Gazette

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How did you first learn to dance?

My mother was a dancer, and then she opened a dance studio. Both my sister and I were kind of babysat there. My sister went on to play soccer, but I stuck with it. Soccer was definitely not my specialty – my mom said I used to dance down the field! 

Did you love ballet from the beginning?

Growing up, I was a very strong jazz dancer. We also did ballet, but it was a challenge. But I’ve never liked putting myself in situations where I could already do something, or was the best at it – there’s no fun in that. That’s how I’ve continued in my career – always surround yourself with people that are better. I’m constantly yearning to learn more.

You received a severe injury in 2019 – that must have been a very difficult time?

I suffered a really bad herniated disc in my neck. It was a very traumatic injury – I woke up one morning and couldn’t move my head without so much pain. To hear: “you’re probably never going to dance again”, or “we don’t know if this is going to heal” – that was really hard. I feel my best when I am dancing, so it felt like a huge part of my being was missing. I was invited to make Thousandth Orange for the Vail Dance Festival. I said, normally I do the movements on myself. How am I going to do that when I can’t move? It was a much different process than anything I’d done before because I had to focus on the dancers’ bodies instead of using my own. I love what came out of it.

Photo: Vincent Tullo

You made The Barre Project with the choreographer William Forsythe during lockdown – how did that come about?

William Forsythe and I had tried to work together a few times but our schedules never worked. During the lockdown, I hit a point where I was missing being creative. It felt like a lot of time was being lost. So I texted Bill and said, I know it’s not ideal, but would you want to make something? And he wrote back right away and said, ‘Well, when would you want to start? Tomorrow?’ We never met in person, but spent every day together on Zoom – it was one of the best times of my life.

Why does dance matter to you?

Dance matters to me because I truly believe that it’s healing. Since my injury, I know that it is healing to me. It’s always been the way I express myself and get my emotions out. But I also believe that it’s healing for those that are watching because it has the ability to transport them to a different place for that moment in time.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette. The fifth season of Why Dance Matters also includes conversations with choreographers Dame Arlene Phillips and Francesca Harper, RAD teacher and examiner Ana Maria Campos and Tim Arthur, the RAD’s Chief Executive. Please do listen and subscribe.

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Benji Reid

Dance Gazette

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What do you remember from your first major journey – from South Africa to train in England?

I came to England when I was 14. In those days people mostly came by boat, so we sailed from Cape Town. I lived in Johannesburg, 1000 miles away from the Cape, so we took a train: the first time I’d ever been on a train. Lots of friends and relatives had come to see us off, I saw so many people in tears. And I felt so guilty because I was jumping up and down for joy. I was just so excited by the prospect of coming to London.

The first big international trip you took with the Royal Ballet was to the USA in 1960?

I turned 19 on the day we flew to America, and we did a five month tour of America. We started in New York for six weeks and then we went the length and breadth. There was a tremendous amount of one night stands – completely exhausting because you slept on the train and then had to get off at eight o’clock in the morning. We were expected to dress properly at all times: gloves and stockings with the seams straight up the back of the leg which we had to climb into in these little restrooms on the train.

Monica Mason as a harlot in Romeo and Juliet in 1965. Photo: GBL Wilson/RAD/ArenaPAL

What was it like to travel during through a still segregated America?

I was reminded of South Africa, because it was like apartheid. A member of the orchestra – a violinist, a lovely guy – was Black. And he wasn’t allowed to play in the orchestra in the south. He wasn’t allowed to travel on the buses or eat with us. I remember writing home to my mother and saying, this is like being in South Africa, it’s horrible. Through the 1960s, we went many times, and it got worse, really, because there were the assassinations of President Kennedy and Martin Luther King. There is nothing like travelling for opening your eyes. And at the same time, we were dancing our socks off, night after night.

How was your first trip to Russia in the 1960s?

It couldn’t have been a greater contrast. Everything was so regimented and people had told us that we would be followed at all times. We were told that we had to keep our opinions to ourselves, not even share them in the rooms, because everything would be bugged, even the bathroom. I remember having somebody who didn’t even hide the fact that he was tailing us. It was such a shock to discover that people lived like this, and that they had so little. But the audiences were absolutely amazing, people with such knowledge of the art form. While we were there, Rudolf Nureyev was defecting to the west in Paris, but not a drop of news got out. It was only when we came back that we discovered what had happened.

Monica Mason in 1964. Photo: GBL Wilson/RAD/ArenaPAL

How did you persuade people to support the campaign for RAD’s new headquarters?

It was my belief in what the RAD gives the world – the importance of young people, understanding and appreciating dance, being well taught, being properly prepared for whatever their career will be. Dance influences them – the ability to communicate, to care deeply about something is so vital.

Why does dance matter to you?

The great thing about dance is that there is no language. It has  taken us to so many places where you can’t really communicate with people: our first tour to Japan, to China, the first time we went to Russia, and then Brazil and Cuba. It’s been such a privilege to be a part of an art form that doesn’t need language. That’s been the great thing, taking it all around the world and discovering that people everywhere seem to understand.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. We hope these insightful personal conversations – hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette – will delight and inspire you. 

The fourth season of Why Dance Matters also includes conversations with choreographers Akram Khan and Charlotte Edmonds, and the poet Benjamin Zephaniah. Please do listen and subscribe.

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Dada Masilo

Dance Gazette

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What is the biggest misconception people have about dance?

People are finally understanding that ballet dancers are human beings too. We’re actual people! For a long time everybody thought of dancers as unattainable and so glamorous – but actually, we’re just like everybody else. To be relatable is a huge thing in today’s world. Any time you can follow a dancer on social media or see their daily life, you feel: they’re like me, but they’re just a ballet dancer. That’s been a huge thing I’ve seen through my YouTube channel.

How did ballet get its hooks into you??

I started dancing as soon as I could walk. Anytime my parents had classical music playing, I was completely transfixed. My mom tells me that I said, ‘Mommy, I want to be the music.’ Ballet was the only thing I ever wanted to do. The story goes that when I was 18 months old, the Bolshoi Nutcracker was on television. I had a teddy bear with a tutu on, I took the tutu off the teddy bear, put it on me and started dancing. That was it from day one. They tried to put me in other activities at school, but ballet was the only thing that stuck. And it’s still stuck.

Photo: Kathryn Morgan

You went public about the body shaming you experienced at Miami City Ballet. What does that do to a dancer?

Every ballet dancer has something about their body they don’t like. Oftentimes, your weight is criticised, and it’s very difficult to come out of that without some sort of mental struggle or eating disorder. I’ve heard people say to dancers, that was great, if you lost five pounds it would be even better. I don’t know even how this started – because if you look at much earlier dancers like Anna Pavlova, they were never that thin. We’ve switched over into thinking that you have to look like a prepubescent child in order to have the proper lines in ballet. One of the hard things about being a woman is so many of us looked quote, ‘perfect’ when we were 14, 15, 16. You go through puberty and these natural changes and suddenly it’s like, ‘Ooh, now you’re too big.’ I’m just becoming a woman, yet you want me to fight against that? It’s a very worrisome issue in the ballet world. 

What is the one thing that teachers could do to break the patterns that you experienced?

It’s not what you say, but how you say it. I think we need to get rid of terms like ‘Why are you doing this?’ or ‘Why are you not putting your feet like that?’ Why don’t you rephrase it and say, ‘make sure you remember to point your feet.’ You can say exactly the same thing, just in a more encouraging, positive way. I remember the teachers who were encouraging – that’s when I improved. Screaming at students, in my opinion, doesn’t work. You’re damaging them and they’re going to feel like failures, to be quite frank. So when I teach, I find the positive thing, even if I’m giving a correction. What I love about teaching is the mentoring aspect. I like students to walk out of my class happier than when they came in.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why does dance matter to you?

It’s my form of expression. It’s my form of feeling free. I’ve never felt more like myself and free than when I’m dancing. I was a very shy kid growing up, a child that would never say anything. Then I would get in the studio and my teacher would be like, Where’d that come from? It’s my freedom, and it’s something that I love helping other people with, because it’s so many other people’s passion as well. For me, it’s just life.

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is the RAD’s podcast – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. We hope these insightful personal conversations – hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette – will delight and inspire you. 

The fourth season of Why Dance Matters launches soon. Please do listen and subscribe.

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Stepping out

Dance Gazette

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What sparked your interest in dance?

I’d always loved to dance and been a performer in my house. There was an understanding from my parents that this kid had to have attention! There was a New York City Ballet special on PBS, and I became hooked seeing Albert Evans dancing Ulysses Dove’s Red Angels – I had never seen anything like it. Then I got a gift for Christmas of NYCB in The Nutcracker – and beyond the costumes and amazing dancing, it was the snow scene that was captivating to me. One of the snowflakes was Black – she was really good, and I spent the whole time watching her. She gave me permission to say: I could be up there too.

Was it easy to make the decision to pursue a career in dance?

In retrospect, I didn’t know what it meant to be a dancer. My path to pursuing dance and being here at Houston Ballet has always been a search for community. The dance studio has always been a place where I could turn the volume up to 10 on who I am. It’s equal parts wanting to be the best dancer I can be, but also searching for a place where my identity and who I am can be at maximum.

Harper Watters and Charles-Louis Yoshiyama in Come In. Photo: Amitava Sarkar (Houston Ballet)

How did a pair of very high, pink heels and a gym treadmill launch your social media career?

There was a group of openly gay boys in the company at the time – it felt like a golden age, but we were probably so obnoxious! One of the boys was leaving the company and walked into the gym one night with two pairs of giant pink heels. We wondered what would happen if we wore them on the treadmill, and one thing led to another. It was very impromptu – we filmed it, I posted it and turned my phone off. When I reopened my phone there were a lot of likes and comments. It was a wake-up call to the power of social media. I thought, now that I have people watching I want to bring them into my world as a classical dancer.

How have you carried that forward?

One thing I’ve learned through my social media career is that visibility is currency. Not necessarily monetary, but the power to show people that they can do it. What I try to do with my social media is to lean into what makes me happy, and if that inspires other people to take that first step then I feel I’m accomplishing something. The series [about previous dancers of colour for Black History Month in the US] I did on social media is my way of acknowledging the dancers who were doing it first – I feel I owe that to them.

Artwork: Bex Glendining

Why does dance matter to you?

I feel I would have answered this differently a few years ago. But right now, dance is about a legacy for me. It’s so important to be confident, unapologetic, authentic, fabulous in what you do. I’m not just doing it for myself but for so many others. Dance matters because I want to continue that legacy. And it’s also really fun to do!

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is a new podcast from the RAD – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. We hope these insightful personal conversations – hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette – will delight and inspire you.

The third season of Why Dance Matters also includes Carlos Acosta, opera star Joyce DiDonato and RAD President Dame Darcey Bussell. Please do listen and subscribe.

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A royal opening

Dance Gazette

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What came first: dance or athletics?

I started dancing when I was two. Mum took me along to ballet class and I did tap, ballet and modern for about 10 years. I loved it. I didn’t experience competition until I was at primary school, and was quite shy and was never confident. But I loved sports day and the fact that you could win or lose – I enjoyed that element of competition. It was how I got more involved in athletics – it was black or white, no grey areas.

How do you deal with winning and losing?

Even when I win, I’m very critical of myself. It’s part of being of an athlete, you’re always looking to do better. I’ve always been prepared to fail, but we don’t really prepare athletes for success. At Rio in 2016, I became a double paralympic champion, I was a world record holder, it should have been the happiest time of my life. I felt relief that I’d actually done it, but didn’t enjoy it. It felt good for five minutes, but I then felt very unfulfilled. I’d always felt like a mentally very strong and resilient person, but was suddenly spiralling into having mental health issues. It completely took me by surprise. People think, when you’ve achieved something you’ve dreamt of your whole life, that you should be happy and grateful. I felt very isolated. I completely lost myself and it took 18 months for me to become even a shadow of myself again. Even now, I’m not the same person.

Libby Clegg. Photo: Adidas

How did you enjoy Dancing on Ice?

For me, ice skating is ballet on ice. When I did Dancing on Ice it was so good for me. I was terrible – but had a new-found appreciation for dance. The ice dancers are incredible. You’ve got the logical structure of training and preparation, but you’ve also got the whole artistic and performance side. Since starting athletics I’d never gone back to dance, so it was awe-inspiring. Blind people don’t necessarily have good spatial awareness, and I’m no good at facial expressions, so I knew [professional ice dancer] Mark Hanretty was nervous about working with me. We had a really good conversation: I said, I’m an athlete, I’m very coachable. We absolutely clicked, I completely trusted him and I wasn’t going to let anything get in my way.

What difference has your guide dog, Hatti, made to you?

It took me a while to decide to get a guide dog. I was getting very bored with explaining to everybody that I couldn’t see very well and asking if they could help me. I hated using a cane. Hatti gives me confidence: that I can go anywhere and not be judged, because all people want to do is stroke her. Disability can be awkward for other people – having Hatti there makes people more comfortable and feel that they can ask me any questions they want. Hatti’s an amazing dog, she’s been there through a lot of ups and downs.

Why does dance matter to you?

Dance is an expression of yourself, it gives you a sense of freedom. I’m terrible at dancing – but I do like to have a little dance in the kitchen!

Artwork: Bex Glendining
Libby Clegg. Photo: Adidas

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is a new podcast from the RAD – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. We hope these insightful personal conversations – hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette – will delight and inspire you.

Our new season includes Carlos Acosta, American opera star Joyce DiDonato and RAD teacher Barbara Peters. Please listen and subscribe to Why Dance Matters.

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Where did the name Rowdy come from?

When I moved to England, I started going into the underground hip-hop scene, but there weren’t a lot of girls. I felt I had a lot to prove, to show I wasn’t scared of no boys. I would be overly confident, very cocky and self-assured. It was all a façade, but the rumour started spreading about this girl that was rowdy and over the top, thinking she’s all that. I started to get self-conscious – but then I thought, I haven’t come all the way to another country to feel small, so I decided to take on the name as a badge of honour. You think I’m too rowdy? Yeah, I am rowdy, and you can’t tell me nothing!

You were born in Colombia but grew up in Sweden. What was your experience of school?

I went to a strict, elitist Swedish school. It was very old-fashioned – they were still beating kids, we had to curtsey to the teacher. Me and my brother were the only black kids in the whole school. This was not an era when neurodiversity was noticed. From an early age I struggled when it came to anything mathematic or science-based. I was told: you’re not working hard enough, make much more of an effort. I tried, I really tried. I excelled in anything creative. I couldn’t work out why I was struggling in maths.

Photo: Robert Alleyne

How did you discover dyscalculia?

When I was 17, I happened to come across a news article about this girl who couldn’t see numbers the same way as normal people could. I thought, this girl is describing how I see the world. I’d never heard of ‘dyscalculia’ – but it was like a stone dropping from my chest. It took a while to convince my parents and school, but it completely changed my world.

When did dance come into your life?

Dance was always there. When I was three years old I was moving around the house. I loved watching dance videos and would practice by myself. It was natural to me. I’d been to a dance class where the teacher said, ‘You’re really terrible – you shouldn’t come back.’ He said that in front of all the students. Then I went to another dance class – and there was this tall Black man, in baggy clothing, playing music I’d heard on the radio, with the biggest smile. It was such a change. How could I not go back?

Artwork: Bex Glendining

You’ve taught a lot, including on the RAD’s Step into Dance programme. Do you ever recognise your younger self among the young people you teach?

I would recognise myself in kids that would struggle, or were shy, or maybe aggressive because they felt embarrassed. And I would find a way to reach those kids on a level that they would find a safe space. You don’t know about their life at home – dance might be the only relief or safe space for them. So don’t ever turn away a kid or make them feel unwanted in the space. That is my main goal in teaching.

Why does dance matter to you?

Dance was the one guiding light through everything for me. If I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t be the person I am today. I wouldn’t have found my voice. I wouldn’t have found a place where I can call myself a trailblazer for young kids. I would have just been a scared little kid, believing she was stupid. Dance really saved my life.

Why Dance Matters

Why Dance Matters is a new podcast from the RAD – a series of conversations with extraordinary people from the world of dance and beyond. We hope these insightful personal conversations – hosted by David Jays, editor of Dance Gazette – will delight and inspire you.

Other guests in our new season include the star dancers James Whiteside and Leanne Benjamin, choreographer Ashley Page, the Paralympian athlete Libby Clegg, Hannah Martin who won a bronze medal in The Fonteyn this year and RAD Artistic Director Gerald Charles. Please listen and subscribe to Why Dance Matters.

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